Civilization 4

Sasannka · Post autor: **Sasannka** » 04 kwie 2006, 15:26

AI is bad. It will produce tons of axmen and swordsmen and when Akim will come back he will have army ready to wipe us out.

Akimuhb · Post autor: **Akimuhb** » 04 kwie 2006, 15:39

The AI will probably screw up big time so I'd be better off not doing the turns at all. As for setting up 20 turns in advance, I have no idea what will be smart to do in 20 turns, I rarely plan longer ahead than a few turns if that long ;p

!rq · Post autor: **!rq** » 08 kwie 2006, 16:00

As it will probably happen again in the future (almost everyone has to leave from time to time... and there is still more than 2000 years ahead of us), I think we should establish some general rule.
Making all the other players wait is, as I see it, not very appropriate - what if one will take a leave, then another plr, and another (one player at a time) - it will take forever to make any advance. What's more - disruption of game pace makes it less enjoyable.
So - if we decided to play in the group of 9, we should also accept, that if one 1 plr is to leave for some time, he has to, either:
- give the command to AI for several turns,
or
- set his civ for several turns ahead (in that case leaving player shouldn't be attacked by others, as it wouldn't be sportsmanly), and give password to some other trusted player who would hurry turns.

I've picked second option myself when I had to leave for few days - Nat hurried my turns (he assured me that he didn't peeked and I have to trust him ;->) so the game flowed.

I vote for the game to flow!

Post autor: **Nataniel** » 08 kwie 2006, 16:10

Ok, vox populi... Akim, you take over AI when you're back.

Akimuhb · Post autor: **Akimuhb** » 08 kwie 2006, 17:24

sounds good.

Post autor: **Nataniel** » 08 kwie 2006, 17:51

Akim, I thought you're offline for a week?

Akimuhb · Post autor: **Akimuhb** » 08 kwie 2006, 22:49

Not offline, I have my laptop and my parents' 56k modem. But my laptop can't run civ4 properly. It can run it but everything except forests is black so it's somewhat hard to play ;p

Post autor: **Nataniel** » 13 kwie 2006, 11:32

I'm starting to think if a new game isn't good idea. The tech trading seems to ruin the game as players can easily gang up against others speeding up the research by exchange of techs. It will end in everyone having the same set of techs and that is no fun at all. What do you think?

Shaula · Post autor: **Shaula** » 13 kwie 2006, 11:43

I agree, even if playing this game has taken us so muuuuch time...

BTW, could we have random civilisations, pls? It's often not possible to play how we wanted to, because someone has already chosen our fav civ.

Kakaj · Post autor: **Kakaj** » 13 kwie 2006, 12:13

How you can agree with this.... Its illogic ... If we turn off 'tech trading' the game will go 3-4 times slower !!

On the other hand why not run next game in parallel, on different server ?

I dont vote for canceling this one, even if its good for me becasue I will be the winner (most points at this moment)

Post autor: **Nataniel** » 13 kwie 2006, 12:27

Do you have paralell server? :>

Sasannka · Post autor: **Sasannka** » 13 kwie 2006, 12:28

I am up to start new one because I live in tundra and suffer greatly

When we turn off tech trade game will not be slower. We will do turns as often as now. Tech research will be slowe but this will not make any harm.

Shaula, it is possible to play the same civ and even the same leader in one game by two different players. Nat discovered that recently

!rq · Post autor: **!rq** » 13 kwie 2006, 12:38

Ending the game can be some kind of solution, but let's be honest - every game of Civ has some element of randomness in it (starting point etc.) and therefore can be unjust for some players.
I have other suggestions. Current game gained it's own history already, and though I've got pretty bad starting point and I'm much behind in tech development, I think we should continue.
I agree that tech trading can take much fun out of the game - some of us (including me) are not much of a hugglers, and so others get adventage because of that. For example - if someone has many contacts and develops new tech, he can exchange it (if he's quick enough) with several other players for other techs (so tech trading can be a matter of quickness and cunningness). But after all - if other's (with less contacts) agree to engage in such a bargain... Noone forces them.
The resolution of such problem is to begin forming alliances, especially among weaker players. It's nice to have strong ally, but after all it takes all the chances of winning away. So balancing the game is simply the matter of not giving in to short term temtations, but forming of agreements profitable in long term.
The game balance is up to us.
First of all - we should abstain from trading for new techs at all costs.
Second of all - we should be aware of stronger players (not only in terms of war) [and I'm not talking about strong players at current stage, as they can change during the game].
Third of all - weaker players have to form strict alliances (based on trust - for example - it is tempting for one of the weaker players to share all the techs with his weak allies on one hand, and with stronger player on the other - but as I pointed before - it's short term gain - the one who breaks ranks will soon be left on the mercy of strong player only).
I belive that in the end this Civ can be pretty interesting game of interests and alliances based on much more than only internal mechanics.
If the game won't find it's natural balance it will end shortly anyway.

PS. At the present time noone of the players I've met wanted strick alliance with me. But so what? I'll look for some others, maybe finally someone will be interested.

PS2. I thing it will be cool to name the alliances.

History gives some examples: "axis", "dreibund" and so on...

PS3. In playing civ winning is the primary objective. But running interesting plot is also fun .

Sasannka · Post autor: **Sasannka** » 13 kwie 2006, 12:49

Well my ally ("natural" and planned) is out of game till end of Easter and "his" AI doesn't want to give me his tech for free

My second "natural" ally is Nataniel and everyone know that alliance with him is like double-edged sword

I haven't met other Civs yet...

!rq · Post autor: **!rq** » 13 kwie 2006, 12:58

Indeed, his double-edgedness is well known.

Alliances with neighbours can be tricky thing as no alliance is for ever and every nation needs proper space...

Kakaj · Post autor: **Kakaj** » 13 kwie 2006, 14:04

Multiple PitBoss/Notify instances
With v1.0, you can now run multiple instances of PitBoss and the PitBoss Notify app. PitBoss Notify will automatically connect to any PitBoss instance that does not already have a Notify app linked with it.

With new PitBoss version issued, we can run parallel game on the same server ... with different setup .. random civs etc.

Szept · Post autor: **Szept** » 13 kwie 2006, 14:19

Game without triding is not good idea, ib be too slow.
New game at this moment is not good idea too :/

Shaula · Post autor: **Shaula** » 13 kwie 2006, 16:28

I still vote for finishing this game - we talked a lot of sharing techs and I think that sooner or later we will have to choose one player and destroy him/her together, because there will be no other way to win this game. So if you want to form alliances, start doing it right now, otherwise one day you can become "The Chosen One"

(and not in a "Fallout" way, hihi).

Kakaj · Post autor: **Kakaj** » 13 kwie 2006, 17:32

Shaula pisze:I still vote for finishing this game

There is realy no reason for finishing the game, since we can run another one in parallel. If you dont want to play current, because of some reasons ... just give up, and your civ will be taken by AI.

Shaula pisze:we talked a lot of sharing techs

Which is very good part of the game. You have to think wisely and risk sometimes what to discover before others to have chances in trading ...

Sasanka.. if you have only few civs known .. send scouts .. one or two.

I chose the same like you .. my economy FIRST .. so I havent sent anything (no meeting civs, no bonuses from huts) .. so I know only those civs which found me.. I still dont know 4 civs, and I am not doing bad with techs etc, even I have started on desert with lack of resources.

The game with no trading techs .. will go one way only ! .. Everybody will discover military techs before others techs, to protect theirs borders.
Nobody will think about culture etc

It will be more defensive, and less risky game than you think

Shaula pisze: I think that sooner or later we will have to choose one player and destroy him/her together, because there will be no other way to win this game.

and... ?
its THE GAME

.. I dont see any problems in fighting and destroying in this game.... this is one of possible ways to win.

On the other hand .. this what you've just said about playing with trading techs possiblity .. its rather in opposite to Nataniel's theory .. which says that "It will end in everyone having the same set of techs and that is no fun at all."

I vote for :
- not canceling this game ... who want to stay and play .. wil do that.
- start another game in parallel .. with new options, random civs etc, maybe smaller map. But still with trading techs possibility !

Szept · Post autor: **Szept** » 13 kwie 2006, 18:29

Kakaj you have absolutley right.

!rq · Post autor: **!rq** » 13 kwie 2006, 19:46

I won't take part in parallel game, this one is enough time-consuming

As for tech-trading-spoiler... for me there will be no more ad hoc trading.
Only long-time relationships fellows! ...so don't bother for one-time offers.

Szept · Post autor: **Szept** » 13 kwie 2006, 20:07

!rq pisze: Only long-time relationships fellows! ...so don't bother for one-time offers.

Why?

!rq · Post autor: **!rq** » 13 kwie 2006, 20:25

It's simple - let's say I invent tech A, plr2 invents tech B, plr3 invents tech C and plr4 invents tech D. Let's say plr3 is a great huggler with wide contacts. I give him A for C. Then he exchanges A for D with plr4, and C for B with plr2. Plr2 exchanges C for A with plr4.

I've got nothing to offer for plr4 and plr2, so I get screwed.

Of course everyone is free to do anything they want, but I abstain from giving other players such opportunities. I'm lousy huggler, so I prefer tech-alliances (nota bene: tech alliance doesn't equals military alliance).

Kakaj · Post autor: **Kakaj** » 13 kwie 2006, 20:51

I have just went into the game ... and during my turn... I have seen a message:

[PitBoSs to all]: PIK !!, Stop download porn movies !!

hehe, what happened ? Is it a joke from a server ?
Nataniel have you installed new version of PitBoss, which send jokes during the game ?

Post autor: **Nataniel** » 13 kwie 2006, 21:34

It's been me - I can chat without log into the game, as PitBoSS (the server name). PiK's ping was VERY high (over 1500 ms) so I've posted that

. No worries - just download less porn, mates

.